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Dave Darby's avatar

I’ve changed the title of the series / book, from 'The Commoners’ Manifesto: Why Marx Was Wrong', to 'The Commoners’ Manifesto: Neither Capitalism Nor Communism'.

After debating this with several people, I saw that I was being too harsh on old Karl.

The new title does the same job (shows that anti-capitalism doesn’t have to mean communism), without disrespecting Marx.

In his later writings, Marx moved away from the idea that societies have to go through a capitalist phase to achieve socialism. He studied indigenous communities and collective landholding (the mir system) in Russia, and said that Russia didn’t necessarily have to pass through full capitalist development, and that existing communal structures could potentially become a starting point for socialism, if linked to broader revolutionary change.

He saw that societies could use pre-existing communal or collective institutions as a foundation for socialism.

The problem for the West is that there are very few pre-existing communal or collective institutions, and community has been devastated. We have to rebuild it.

Also, Marx never explicitly said that seizing the state was unnecessary. In fact, in most of his canonical works, the seizure of state power is central to the transition from capitalism to socialism. His later writings just opened the possibility that socialism could arise in specific contexts (like Russia) through existing communal structures—but he didn’t negate the revolutionary role of the state entirely.

So his followers, for example Lenin, argued that the proletariat and peasantry could seize state power even in a largely agrarian society like Russia. He claimed that the existing communal and peasant structures (like the mir / village communes) could be used as building blocks for a socialist economy.

But we know where that led – which is what I’m arguing. I might well have agreed with Marx in his later years, but wherever Marxism has been implemented, it’s ended in authoritarianism.

With communism you eventually get Stalin; with capitalism you eventually get Trump. What a choice. In a commons world, people like that can’t get power.

If you’re a true Marxist, then accept that his accumulated wisdom in later years led him to be much more favourable to growing the commons in the cracks in capitalism than to seizing the state.

An economics professor has brought to my attention 3 books that describe the change in Marx’s views in later life:

'Marx at the Margins: On Nationalism, Ethnicity, and Non-Western Societies' and 'The Late Marx’s Revolutionary Roads' by Kevin B. Anderson

and

'Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism' by Kohei Saito

and said: ‘I think that in considering mesoamerican, Incan and Indian commons was an abandonment of violence... he clearly did not see the proletarian organization as an organized force to overthrow the state by the end of his life... Anderson's book and Saito's are both references for this’

- So I’m very interested in having a look at what those authors are saying, and will change future articles accordingly. I’d be happy to talk with Marxists about Marx’s later views being much closer to building commons than violent overthrow of the state.

Dave Darby's avatar

Got this via email (NB please post in the comments rather than email):

‘I'm not sure it would be sensible to use that as your title. The idea 'Marx was wrong' may attract a certain demographic, and not the one you're looking for. I think it would be fair to say Marxism is incomplete, and yes certainly the Bolsheviks kinda screwed over the anarchists there. But why drag up Marx to push him down? Especially as this will alienate a lot of the people we hope to reach and even involve. In the Bristol Commons we are trying to be very mindful of class dynamics, and wanting to involve more working class people. (Working Class with an expanded and revised definition for 21st century contexts) Anyway it would be a shame to put off so many people who could be comrades. There are lots of people who would jump on the Marx was wrong train and may co-opt the commons movement for their own nostalgic interpretation. It's not about going back to a better way of doing things before industrial capitalism, it's about bringing forward those practices that we have lost touch with that bring both meaning and remedy to our modern crisis.’

My response:

This series of articles, and the book, will contain my opinions (not the position of GtC), which I want to put out there, but which I’ll change if presented with persuasive arguments / evidence.

I’ll talk more about this in the next article.

As I said to Tim, above (or below, depending on where this comment lands), Marx wanted to seize the state, and implement a dictatorship of the proletariat (albeit temporarily), which is what the Bolsheviks did, so of course they were acting on the writings of Marx. They called themselves Marxists, and so did Lenin.

I want to dissuade anti-capitalists from going that route. The subtitle could have been something anti-corporate or anti-capitalist, but that’s a given. I’m writing for anti-capitalists. So I want to show that commons is neither capitalist nor communist. I want to present commons as a decentralised alternative to both of those centralised systems.

Why do you associate Marxism with the working-class btw? For every working-class marxist (based on votes for and membership of Marxist parties), there are tens of thousands of Reform supporters.

Imo, there’s as much if not more danger to the commons from Marxists than from capitalists. To build and maintain commons, we need to take power from capitalists and make sure Marxists don’t get it – which would be disastrous for commons.

I’ll present these arguments in more detail in the articles.

I think the biggest risk to commons is that anti-capitalists will go the statist route not the commons route (and they are polar opposites).

Martin Luther King: “Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.”

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